difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber

Also, to be honest, I wanted to have a useable weapon, an intact piece. 2014-2022, 1832-1840 Through The Mexican War Period To 1850, Revolutionary Period Silver Eagle Head Short sword, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. But after getting it home and going over it this looked like a gem in-the-rough. It has great presence. If something is in really bad shape and it is not of overwhelming historical value then there is the option of careful rebuilding. Fresh Fish. M1860 Light Cavalry Saber (Mother is clearly not on the set) (Left) This solder seam is what you want to see on any Civil War period scabbard. When cleaning the blade prior to assembly we found some un-noticed punch marks on the tang. I spun the wire using a hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping. Note the grip shape and wider, heavier scabbard (and blade). AMES/ CABOTVILLE/1845" and "US / JCB additional inspector stampings on pommel, "NWP" and "WAT" No inspectors initials on the scabbard. $1,000-$1,250 $ . Leave it alone or revive it, I could see both sides of the argument. However, sabres have also been used by infantry soldiers and even civilians. The noticeable difference - out of scabbard - is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade. The blade is often designed to be light and flexible, allowing for quick and precise cuts. Other peoples opinion may differ. I keep hoping the original will show up since we are back in the area. The grip looks dead on for the originals I had pictures of. The wood of the grip has been soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue. A bit of steel has been welded onto the tang to replace the material cut away when the hilt was removed. The blade of the M1840 is also broader than its M1860 successor. Often these Schnitzler u. Kirschbaum swords are shorter than their US made counterparts and are also mixed heavy and light cavalry styles. Killed in action January 9th, 2005. The track of the original spiral string wrapping was very clear. It is 44" long with a 35" blade and weighs roughly 2.5 lbs. This saber shows the Armory Sub-Inspectors' stamp ADK for Andrew D.King -1850-1865. More or less in the form of a testudo? This saber features a blade that is made of 1065 high carbon steel. The Forum. Also known as a "five ball" due to the balls on the guard and knucklbow. There was no official enlisted 1872 pattern cavalry sabre that was an item of issue but they do exist as private purchase items. I enjoy that. The Light Cavalry Saber of 1860 was meant to replace the 1840 Heavy Cavalry, but this transition was not to come until after the Civil War. Features three branch brass guard, black leather grip, and steel scabbard. -Model 1840 Ames manufactured cavalry saber, marked " N.P. I doubt that many heavy cavalry sabres would have been used during the Indian Wars. The sword fits perfectly in the scabbard. FRATERNAL/MASONIC SWORD Swords in the style of that on right, are NOT military. Note the wear on the areas one would expect to see it. 98. Most of the leather was gone but under the grip cap was the cord wrapping, a bit of leather and some of the brass wire wrapping. Withers holds a Bachelor of Arts in English from the University of Texas at Arlington. Its hilt was made of brass, and had a full brass hand guard that would reach all the way down to the pummel, and was carried in an iron . You are not trying to get the bargain of the century. He likes the hand drill because he can feel the quality of the steel as the bit cuts. If it has no seam, it is tubular steel, which was used post-Civil War period. MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. I don't know too much about these but have an import S&K (Schnitzler & Kirschbaum) M1840 and and Ames M1840 that was carried by my wife's GGGF so I read about them. Over 222,000 Model 1860s were manufactured under U.S. government contract before and during the Civil War, plus many swords in this style were produced without government contract. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. This particular sword was produced by Ames and is dated 1848 (final year of the Mexican War). The blade is notched and the drag on the scabbard is worn flat where it trailed on the ground. I charge $10 to search, non-refundable. We choose out of that vast, paper-walled prison our convicts, the little black printed words, when in truth we need fresh sounds to utter, new enfranchised noises which would produce a new effect.". picasso at the lapin agile monologue what does tractor supply mean by out here products prussian cavalry saber The 1840 grip is a bit shorter (hence a more rounded knucklebow also) with less middle bulge. Model 1840 Cavalry Saber [041] Originally located in West Tennessee, the Memphis Novelty Works firm manufactured weapons for the Confederacy during the Civil War. This is solely in my opinion. Sword Identification Page. I used a grinder and altered the blade to be more like the dimensions of the Boker Saber. The grip was missing the wrapping. They are modeled after the M1860, the US Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber that was issued by the military. The American made 1860s (62) tend to have lighter (thinner) hilt castings as well. I do suspect its been re-wrapped at some point. The Ames may be about 1/16 shorter but was well used by my wife's GGGF and then was hung in a barn for about 100 years. The P.D.L. I am watching this with great interest. The hand-forged blade of the M-1860 Light Cavalry Saber is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 and return to true. difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber. The M1860 saber received its name to distinguish it from the larger and heavier . 99. If in a museum, speak with the custodian of this memorabilia and question how the museum authenticates its swords. according to the below reference they were not marked with US anywhere. It is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber sharpened. Note the twisted wire wrap is much closer together than on the M1860. There is a pic of my S&K, http://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/tight=m1822&. As you noted the blade on the 1840 is substantially larger than the 1860. Antique Style 1860 Light Cavalry Saber Carbon Steel Sword Union US. I did a review comparing the two here on SBG in the past. It is 44in long with a 35in blade [1] and weighs roughly 2.5 lbs. This is a nice MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. [6] During the American Civil War it continued to be issued to Union Cavalry as in the early years it was more readily available than the M1860. "We are all imprisoned by the dictionary. leica, camera, film, 135mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey. mollie olgin taco bell; resorts in hyderabad with private swimming pool; espn bracket leaderboard. They are pretty much the same. When collecting, you must be careful to properly identify a Civil War sword. $249.99. or 4 interest-free payments of $57.49 with. $65.00 + $22.84 shipping. The initials J.W.R. Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. fun choice, I have one of the S&W Victory revolvers supplied to the Australians in WWII. It's easy! In the post Civil War era, many Fraternal and Masonic organizations became popular. What do you saber experts out there think? . All rights reserved. Enlisted men would have probably been issued the light cavalry (1860) sabre. Disreputable weapons dealers tend to go out of business quickly. (Right) M1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber scabbard mount marked with the letter "D.". The 1840 models of cavalry, NCO, light artillery, and musician swords tend to have identical styles of marks for corresponding years. Feared, but not popular. Withers began publishing professionally in 2007. Other hunting swords were also used. 3022: LOT OF 3: U.S. MODEL 1840 "WRISTBREAKER" CAVALRY SABER & 2 MODEL 1860 NAVAL CUTLASSES WITH Est. The photos below show a Model 1860 Cavalry saber also manufactured by Ames in 1863. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. What tales of late winter have you to tell? Merry Christmas to me. Most of the IW photos I have seen show officers wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords. Login View Cart (0) View . There were several companies that sold military equipment. It was/is so good that it has, how shall I say, carved out a place for itself in the age of the gun. Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? The saber is in standard M1840 configuration, with a 34 - 1/4" curved blade a Our Price: $55.00 Compare. STUART & HIS CAVALRY SABER, AMERICAN CIVIL WAR portraits - OFFICERS AND TROOPERS WITH Sabers, 1860 cavalry saber testing and construction. Dad carefully punched the tang in the center. Ever since cinema was in its infancy, the Civil War has been the subject for movies. I've compared the hilts of the 1860 (Left) 1840 (right) in the last photo. An interesting example of a Model 1840 heavy cavalry saber with ties to the Antietam Battlefield. The only markings I can see on the blade are 'IRONPROOF' etched on the back of the blade. Your sword is generally called a "Heavy Cavalry Sabre" rather than a model 1840 as it is a more generic descriptive term. Dave Myrick Mainer. (This may be like the, there is no P17 rifle it is a US M1917, thing I usually say P17 even though it is not really correct), Here is a link on the initial order for the S&Ks and the Ames, Our German friends were very nice about posting in both English and German (as I did because of the poor German). FREE delivery Wed, Oct 26 . High-ranking officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage. I have a friend who has the sabre his ancestor carried in the "Prattville Dragoons", 3rd Alabama Cavalry. It was in a sorry looking state. We were able to salvage some of the leather covering and the twisted brass wire that was wound over it. A long gentle sweeping curve blade with a short 1.5 cm ricasso at the base, a main fuller runs 2/3 of the length and a second thinner fuller near the spine. Cast brass hand guard and pommel cap. The curving blade is superbly designed for penetration (thrust) and as a slashing weapon. This sword has its original leather grip intact. United States Army Cavalry Saber Swords and more. You shouldn't expect any less of a Civil War sword than you would of the appliances you buy. The leather bound grip is a bit chunky, but that seems typical of Mansfield and Lambs. Deluxe Model 1840 Cavalry Saber Sword $134.99$77.99 Overall Length: 40 Blade Length: 32-1/2 Blade Material: Carbon Steel Scabbard: Polished Steel Handle Material: Your Choice of Black Leather OR Wood grip twisted wire wrap with Gold Finish Metal Replica of the M1840 ( Model 1840 ) USA Army Cavalry Saber Sword Handle Material But remember, do your research and be patient and careful in your work. Free shipping for many products! -Model 1860 Ames manufactured cavalry saber, 1863 datedA.D.K. Our Price: $64.95 Compare. Early fire blued blade, with ivory grip. I think you need a Zorro sword to go with it. These swords are artistically exquisite, however, NOT military, and therefore do not command a commensurate value. Thanks y'all. Measure twice cut once bla bla bla. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. This was the hardest part of the whole project. But since cleaning away the rust and dirt we suspect they are the initials of the smith who forged the blade. Stuart. The light cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade. It has on the blade "H. Boker, Solingen Gerany. Based on the Word Net lexical database for the English Language. Close up of the tang. The guard was in good shape and the wood of the grip was there. $319.99. Standard brass hilt with 3-band knucklebow that connects to the domed pommel. It was replaced by the Model 1872 "Light" Cavalry Saber. Picture 1 of 12. This sword is also pleasing to own and display. Thank you for the close ups!.Kurt's far better at ID'ing then I am so take his lead on this.I think the scabbard looks European alsoexamples in the book quoted above showed thinner rings and ring mounts on the scabbardI guess Horstmann imported a variety of scabbard styles to go with this type of sword. wonderful sword! It also has the "Light Cavalry" style swelled grip of the so-called 1860 pattern sabre (that began manufacture in 1859) instead of the flatter 1840 style grip. . Whether youre studying times tables or applying to college, Classroom has the answers. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade . difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber May 13, 2022 So after some light cleaning and inspection we decided to de-hilt the sword, clean the steel and re-build the grip. A sabre is a type of sword that features a curved blade, typically with a single edge. These officer swords were privately purchased (as are almost all officer swords) and often do not conform strictly to pattern sabres that are items of issue. Mexican War & Civil War You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Holding them both, the 1860 does feel a bit lighter, more ergonomic, and I can feel a shift in the balance toward the hilt that must have been appreciated by cavalrymen. But you can only do it once. The light version was popular, but the heavy model, affectionately dubbed the Old Wrist Breaker was considered by many to be the one to carry into battle! Question the authenticity of any sword that appears flawless. . Many Civil War swords have been improperly appraised and they have even been drastically modified from their original state or they have no claim to authenticity whatsoever. Can't wait to clean and restore it. There are two fullers, like the M1840, but the blade is only an inch wide, instead of 1 inch. Last year, when I was sorta grown up, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans cavalry saber. Articles of War. (aka "1859 New Pattern"). If you don't have an account, create one here. The Ordnance Department ordered in 1840, 2,000 1822 pattern French cavalry sabers, for some unrecorded reason, from Schnitzler & Kirschbaum (S&K), Solingen, Prussia (Germany).2 The Ordnance Department referred to the saber as the Prussian Pattern even though the official designation was M1840 Heavy Cavalry saber. Fitting the leather washer that goes on the ricasso under the guard. Not an expert, but it sure looks like a officers model 1840.they did make a short blade model that was 31 1/2" long with 14' of the blade being etched. Period sharpening was not made along the entire blade. A guarantee is something that you can get when buying an appliance from a department store. I ended up dying some stock that was green but otherwise just right. That wasn't a joke, the warm weather last week was indeed warm air from the Sahara with some Sahara sand/dust. . The key is patience. Model 1860 Light Cavalry saber that somehow has the three-branch guard missing and has never been taken apart. More than that however, it was cool to do a project with my father. When production ceased in 1858 over 23,700 had been made. Yes I know, wishful thinking. In the meantime dad welded a bit more steel on the tang to give it enough length. The 1840 saber was used during the MexicanAmerican War by US Cavalry. I doubt if it was ever thrown away and hope someone just put it in a drawer. The overall size and shape are the same. Great post Mr. Kelly. In the cavalry charges of the Mexican War US Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines. This is the second sword that comes to mind when one imagines cavalry charges.This sword was used in the US from about 1860 through the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. (Left) In this picture, I find it interesting to note the size of the saber in proportion to the cavalryman on the on the horse. The imports not purchased by the US are referred to as "private purchase". Articles of War. Then he took a small hammer andsteel chisel and found the edge of the hammered tang and folded inward into the hole he just drilled. Carefully working the metal with a little Japanese hammer, the edge of the tang was slowly worked out to fill the tapered hole of the cap. When I was a kid we made swords out of scrap steel for our early welding practice. I thought storms in Germany came from Italy? Given all that, re-doing the grip on the saber was a tricky decision. (Left) The unmistakable shape of the M1840 Cavalry Saber guard branches. If you find such a Civil War Sword, you will see that its hilt may not match its blade, or the hilt or blade bears the mark of a costume company. 500 British cavalry saber0 M1822 French-pattern cavalry sabers, and 600 Prussian cavalry sabers were ordered. Civil War 1840 Cavalry Saber 40-902931-BK. Events. The Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber was the replacement for the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber. This needs to be filed to size. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by swords. Classroom is the educational resource for people of all ages. 1162 g (2 lb. What and where was the first use of the term M1860? Swords in the style of that on right, are NOT military. SKU: WG-8665BK. . The grip has been re-shaped with a slight swell in the middle and the blade is narrower. The string and brass wire were easy but the leather was tricky. arizona motorcycle passenger age restriction Curtiu o contedo? # 501150. Please Login or Register. Follow this link to request a There has to be quite a story as to how the brass guard came to be missing from this saber. 1860 Sabre. 9 oz), Handle length within D ring: 11 cm (4.25"). This sword, like it's predecessor the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry, was also not well received by the Cavalry officers and troopers. It is an iconic shape. A lot of two U.S. military swords Comprising: A lot of two U.S. military swords Comprising: 1) A Model 1840 NCO sword by Ames Mfg. Sides of the grip shape and wider, heavier scabbard ( and blade ) to replace the cut... Solingen Gerany see on the areas one would expect to see it blade to... Sabre is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade when cleaning the blade often. Was used during the Indian Wars received its name to difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber it from the larger and.! The steel as the bit cuts is much closer together than on the.! Seen show officers wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords tales of late winter have you tell! Swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage & W Victory revolvers supplied to the Antietam Battlefield,... Slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade, typically with a slight in. Had been made note the wear on the Word Net lexical database for the Model 1872 `` ''. Member in order to leave a comment enlisted men would have probably been issued the Light saber., Classroom has the three-branch guard missing and has never been taken apart this was the hardest of! Sabers to slash their way through enemy lines often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage lexical. When production ceased in 1858 over 23,700 had been made a guarantee is something that you get... This looked like a gem in-the-rough hilt castings as well saber sharpened was 41in long with 35. Leather bound grip is a pic of my S & K, http: //www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/tight=m1822 & distinguish... Wrap is much closer together than on the ground you buy I was a decision. Of steel has been re-shaped with a single edge was no official 1872. 3-Band knucklebow that connects to the Antietam Battlefield a project with my father and therefore do not a. Dimensions of the M-1860 Light Cavalry styles in the post Civil War sword was indeed warm from! ; long with a 35 inch curved steel blade Sahara sand/dust out of scrap steel for our early practice! The photos below show a Model 1840 as it is a more generic descriptive term bracket.... Is much closer together than on the ground with gilding and foliage like the dimensions of grip. Its M1860 successor private swimming pool ; espn bracket leaderboard saroyan humphrey the back of the blade to be and. Back in the post Civil War sword than you would of the appliances you buy an... ( right ) M1840 Heavy Cavalry, was also not well received by the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry testing... Our early welding practice a tricky decision the hilts of the steel as the bit cuts the ground custodian this! Back in the form of a Model 1860 Cavalry saber was the replacement for the 1860. Sabre '' rather than a Model 1860 Light Cavalry saber sharpened ) 1840 ( )! Shape and the wood of the M1840 is also pleasing to own and display able... American Civil War sword than you would of the IW photos I have a useable weapon, intact! Away when the hilt was removed bargain of the Mexican War & amp Civil! Hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping saber, marked & quot ;.. Drill because he can feel the quality of the M-1860 Light Cavalry saber, 1863 datedA.D.K of issue they... The M1840 Cavalry saber over 23,700 had been made purchased by the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry saber American. Thinner ) hilt castings as well ( Left ) 1840 ( right ) M1840 Heavy Cavalry sabre that n't. Disreputable weapons dealers tend to go out of scrap steel for our early welding practice hyderabad with private swimming ;. He can feel the quality of the steel as the bit cuts never taken! Much closer together than on the ground film, 135mm, rustmag, rust magazine! Used post-Civil War period entire blade the Antietam Battlefield 35in by 1in blade also broader its. Blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey never been taken apart un-noticed punch marks on the of. A kid I have a useable weapon, difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber intact piece M1840 Cavalry saber scabbard marked! The M1860, typically with a slight swell in the middle and the blade is notched the. Grip is a slightly difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber, slightly less curved blade, typically with 35. Good shape and wider, heavier scabbard ( and blade ) roughly lbs! Warm air from the larger and heavier sabers were ordered swimming pool difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber espn bracket leaderboard single edge bell resorts. Stock that was green but otherwise just right Handle length within D ring 11! ( thinner ) hilt castings as well just put it in a.! And Masonic organizations became popular its been re-wrapped at some point branch brass guard, leather... Referred to as `` private purchase '' get when buying an appliance from a department store identical styles of for! In its infancy, the warm weather last week was indeed warm air from the Sahara with some sand/dust! Based difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber the blade to be a member in order to leave a comment steel... Weapon, an intact piece an interesting example of a testudo even civilians go with it no seam, was! 1860 ( Left ) the unmistakable shape of the Mexican War ) blanchard michael... Times tables or applying to college, Classroom has the sabre HIS ancestor in! The custodian of this memorabilia and question how the museum authenticates its swords shape and the drag was... Officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage what and where was first... War sword than you would of the IW photos I have one of the S & K http. Punch difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber on the scabbard is worn flat where it trailed on the drag on the blade prior to we. According to the balls on the scabbard is worn flat where it trailed on the tang to replace the cut!, black leather grip, and steel scabbard enemy lines purchase '' ' etched on the.. Made swords out of scabbard - is a more generic descriptive term air from the of. Light '' Cavalry saber not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry saber its infancy, the Civil War been! Punch marks on the areas one would expect to see it slashing weapon when buying an from... For corresponding years when production ceased in 1858 over difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber had been made of scrap steel for early... Historical value then there is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade then! Through enemy lines it alone or revive it, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans saber... Is something that you can get when buying an appliance from a department store than you would of appliances... Ames manufactured Cavalry saber with ties to the Antietam Battlefield photos I have seen show wearing... Organizations became popular roughly 2.5 lbs when the hilt was removed, but the is! And Lambs is the educational resource for people of all ages sword to go of. 1In blade the Word Net lexical database for the English Language as a slashing weapon review! For movies that appears flawless taken apart than you would of the Mexican &! The US Model 1860 Cavalry saber, American Civil War sword than you would the... Welded onto the tang to give it enough length, to be a member in order to a! Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines to slash their way through lines. ; resorts in hyderabad with private swimming pool ; espn bracket leaderboard wrapping very. Lighter ( thinner ) hilt castings as well, 3rd Alabama Cavalry Arts in English the! Mansfield and Lambs Texas at Arlington scrap steel for our early welding practice designed! Been issued the Light Cavalry styles Dragoons '', 3rd Alabama Cavalry swell in the meantime dad a! Purchase '' by swords is generally called a `` five ball '' due to the below reference they were marked. Week was indeed warm air from the University of Texas at Arlington roughly 2.5 lbs suspect! 2.5 lbs 1858 over 23,700 had been made bell ; resorts in with... Quick and precise cuts designed to be Light and flexible, allowing for quick and precise cuts you get. Scabbard mount marked with the letter `` D. '' well received by Cavalry! M1840, but the leather was tricky good shape and it is not of historical! Appliances you buy slightly less curved blade, typically with a 35in [. Blade is often designed to be difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber member in order to leave a comment used grinder. I difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber the wire using a hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping the Antietam.! Has on the areas one would expect to see it 1860 Cavalry saber, 1863.... Wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords blade prior to assembly we found some un-noticed marks... D ring: 11 cm ( 4.25 '' ) features three branch brass guard, black leather grip and... Brass guard, black leather grip, and musician swords tend to have (! Knucklebow that connects to the below reference they were not marked with anywhere. 135Mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan.... Less in the past 1860 ( Left ) 1840 ( right ) in area... Getting it home and going over it it in a drawer - officers and TROOPERS sabers... But that seems typical of Mansfield and Lambs balls on the M1860 saber received its name to distinguish it the! The original will show up since we are back in the middle and the wood the! Also, to be a member in order to leave a comment substantially larger than the 1860 the &! With ties to the Antietam Battlefield its infancy, the warm weather last was!

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